Selling house awaiting decision.

Discussion in 'Selling of Home' started by chazzzzz1, Jul 4, 2012.

  1. chazzzzz1

    chazzzzz1 Newbie

    I helped my mother apply for A@A in July 2011. She was living with me at that time. In October 2011 she moved into
    assisted living. She had a vacant house that was sold in Feb 2012 for $120,000.

    When I filed for her she had limited assets other than the house. The VA application listed about $30,000 in assets.
    I have tried to contact the Va about the change in assets but I cannot get thru on the phone.

    On July 2nd 2012 my mother was approved for A&A but they are withholding due to her dementia.

    Here is my problem.

    My mothers assets have changed since the application was sent.
    My mother probably needs a fidicuary .
    She has moved to assisted livivg.

    How do I go about getting the right info to the VA and getting everything straightened out .
    Will she be disqualified ?
    If so, how long will she have to wait ?
    Can she give the assets to siblings and still qualify ?

    Total assets now- $ 115,000

    Total debts- $11,000 to assisted living
    Credit cards - $ 3000 ( Fixing house to be sold , Utilities )

    Can someone please help me with this situation.

    Thank you,

  2. vetadmin

    vetadmin Administrator Staff Member


    You have 30 days from the sale of the house to report it, so report asap along with the Statement of Occupancy from the AL and the new asset figure – she will likely be fine.
  3. Red Headed Mommy

    Red Headed Mommy Jr. Member

    Just curious about this...I totally understand your response, but was wondering...would you suggest that the family immediately pay off the assisted living facility and credit cards from the house proceeds? The VA may do this "mentally", but I think that is what I would be doing in Charles' position. It clearly shows how assets are being used and it reduces the asset value for reporting purposes....Since he hasn't gone through fiduciary process, he can make payment without VA fiduciary approval..feels like the "cleanest" way to handle.

    As a former CPA, I am interested in how this would work.....thanks!
  4. vetadmin

    vetadmin Administrator Staff Member

    Since I am not a CPA or a legal advisor, I would not comment on this.

    I just know that with the VA telling the truth and dealing with it as it, is much better than down the road and having to back up or owe back.

    If you pay up the ALF - then how do you show a monthly expense that you don't have funds to pay for?
  5. chazzzzz1

    chazzzzz1 Newbie

    Thanks everyone for replying.

    I plan to pay the ALF and the credit card immediately. It is money owed and I am DPOA for my mother.

    I received the fidicuary request today. From my understanding it only applies to VA funds.
    After my mothers bill payments her assets would stand at about $96,000 with no debt.

    ALF costs $3800, medicine $140 , insurance $170

    She receives around $1500 in SSI and pensions.

    Under that scenario she would last about 36 months without VA assistance.

    Now I would like to know how I could become the representative for my mother.
    I need to let them know that her house has sold, she moved to the ALF and that she
    wants me as representative .

    Can I mail all this information at once ?
    How do I go about becoming representative ?
    How long can she be penalized ?
    How would I go about to get her reinstated ?
    Should I send any payments back if they slip thru during
    this long process ?

    Thanks everyone for your replies
  6. vetadmin

    vetadmin Administrator Staff Member

    Use VA form 21-4138 Statement in Support of Claim to update them on everything and include any supporting documentation.

    If not done already, send a 21-0845 Approved 3rd Party.

    You don't really need to address the Claimant's Rep at this time since they are going to discontinue the penion unitl she spends down enough to demonstrate a financial need again.

    When she is close to being at 6 months from financially qualifying again, is when you should request for reinstatement of the pension.

    The VA will let you know if they are going to request payments back.
  7. chazzzzz1

    chazzzzz1 Newbie

    Thanks for the info.

    I have a question concerning form 21-0845.

    At the top of the form it states :

    INSTRUCTIONS: Use this form if you want to give the Department of Veterans Affairs permission to release your personal beneficiary or claim information to a third party. This form may not be executed by any beneficiary recognized as incompetent for VA purposes, nor can VA accept this form from any beneficiary recognized as incompetent for VA purposes.

    The VA has declared her incompetent and are initiating the fidicuary process.

    Should I still fill out the 3rd party form ?

    Thank you again for your time.
  8. vetadmin

    vetadmin Administrator Staff Member

    Yes. You have to have this on file with the VA for them to be able to discuss her application.
  9. Red Headed Mommy

    Red Headed Mommy Jr. Member

    Re: Selling house awaiting decision...

    Thanks Debbie...I want to clarify my response...I also believe in telling the VA the truth and dealing with point was just paying the debts off as soon as possible with the house proceeds...this reduces the interest expense incurred and meeting their obligation. The payments will reflect her actual financial situation for the VA to determine her financial need.

    Charles is correct, I wasn't thinking properly about the fiduciary aspect...that's why YOU are so fabulous at answering questions and I am trying to learn!

    Again, I want to be sure I am not misunderstood...I did not mean to imply in any way not to do something that wasn't proper....

    Still learning!
  10. vetadmin

    vetadmin Administrator Staff Member

    No explanation needed. I understood what you meant. The issue being if you pay the ALF up for several months, then you can't claim that as an expense. It would bascially be the same as having LTC insurance. You cannot claim any expense that is paid by the policy - only any amount not covered. I hope that makes sense.
  11. Red Headed Mommy

    Red Headed Mommy Jr. Member

    Ok...I understand now where you are coming from! You wanted to be sure it wasn't
    "pre-paying" assisted living charges. When he said debt, I was thinking that the assisted living facility had let his mother move into the ALF in October 2011 and had not required payment (or some of the payment), hence the incurring of the debt.

    No doubt the claimant must incur out of pocket medical expenses to claim them....

    Thanks Debbie
  12. Max

    Max Hero Member

    To be clear, it doesn't matter when you pay the assisted living charges. An increase in net worth is counted the first of the following year after the increase, not the first of the month. Just report the debts with the net worth and VA will calculate the rest. Use VA Form 21-8049 to report these changes.
  13. Dee Miller

    Dee Miller Newbie

    My son, who is an MBA, has helped keep the books on my mother's very complicated situation. He suggests the best way to approach VA and Medicaid benefit applications is to supply a full spread sheet that can be supported, upon request, by receipts. I tend to trust his judgment, so that's what we plan to do when I take her completed application with support from all her providers and turn it into her worker in 3 weeks. This may be overkill. However, Mom's SS checks were even frozen for 3 months while they investigated check fraud committed by her "caregiver" son, and she was already in debt to me when she was diagnosed with dementia. She's had a total of 3 VA benefits counselors because they keep leaving their posts!! All agree she qualifies for Aide and Attendant, but none agree on how it will be figured--I find this exasperating.

    Has anybody needed to roll money over from the sale of a house to make the house even inhabitable? That's what happened in our situation. My mother was very protective of the house and paranoid, so she forbid people from looking closely at her abode. When we were finally able to do so, it was horrifying. The 4-bedroom house appraised at $40,000 and we bought for that in December. It now appears we'll do well to get $30,000 due to market fluctuation and the shape it was in! Yet, we felt it would have been foolish to have left it sitting for drug addicts to take over as I was finally able to prove to a neurologist was happening.

    Lawyer had us roll over much of that money back into the house to make it live-able and this is apparently fine for Medicaid purposes. Now, I'm not only feeling nervous about the outcome there, as well as with VA and can't get straight answers from anyone--even at VA on how they'll handle this rollover part that wasn't specifically for her care. TX Medicaid "experts" can't decide if she'll qualify for BOTH, and I find myself having to educate them about what this A & A even is. SO frustrating! There's a lady at a non-profit, Texas Health Law, who believes and is determined to establish for sure that we can get BOTH Aide and Attendance and Star Plus Waiver, the Medicaid program for assisted living in TX, both retroactively. She thinks the sale of the house will not mess up VA benefits going back to the day of her diagnosis, though it will mess up Medicaid until the month of the sale. I hope to know soon.

    Without a former sister-in-law acting as her aide and attendant while she adjusted to care facilities, I don't think she would have survived. (I'm 7 hours away from where Mom insists on being--and I support her in that decision.) She was diagnosed with dementia in all four lobes in August, though fooled her doctors and even a neuro-psychologist, thanks to her social skills they say. The whole town just thought she was eccentric and had been for years, allowing people into her life and not listening to any of us for reasoning. APS, Police Dept. and even her doctor assumed it was only eccentricity. So they did very little, even when they were called because of loud altercations between her and her abusive son with neighbors telling police what they were hearing. It was clearly domestic abuse. Neuropsychologist thinks it was likely very early onset dementia, possibly with a stronghold in her 50's! It all makes sense.

    She's now 91--ironically thriving like a very happy child, though in her 3rd care facility since August. First one, we had security issues--the thieves in the family were getting in the back doors of the nursing home, which otherwise had great care. She was finally able to get a place in assisted living 8 weeks later, where she was very happy. Then the owners pulled the rug out from under me another 8 weeks later by declaring that only those who were grandfathered into Medicaid already would ever be allowed to live there except on private pay from then on. Only place I could find for her was 40 miles away from the woman who had provided her with constant watch-care for four months. She called today, thrilled with the great time she'd had with her new aide and attendant, though I can only afford to pay her for four hours/week now. I sure hope VA comes through with back pay and for more than the 4 hours, but I've had conflicting info on the back pay part due to the house sale. Any comfort words of wisdom?

    Thanks for bearing with me on this extra-long post.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2017
  14. Jandy

    Jandy Jr. Member

    Hello Dee Miller,
    Well, it certainly sounds like you have a full plate. Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with the issues you raised, and I'm a bit confused by some of your facts (the application for my father was relatively straightforward with only a few blips here and there). But luckily, it sounds like you have some people who are trying to help you sort this out.

    If I could give you some general advice--and this applies to us all--I would say it's important to be as clear and concise as you can with your application. You must disclose everything the VA needs to decide your mother's case, but you don't want to weigh them down with irrelevant information. It can be tough to know the difference sometimes (I struggled with this with my father's application), and it's even more challenging with a complicated situation like yours, but try to crystallize your mom's case down to the facts and supporting documents.

    On the plus side, it sounds like your mother is currently happy and safe--that is wonderful news. Great job on finding a place that seems right for her--it can be a tough process sometimes. I wish you the best of luck with the application. Please do keep us posted.
    Kaylin likes this.
  15. Kaylin

    Kaylin Hero Member Staff Member

    Dee Miller,

    One thing to note: your mother cannot qualify for both Medicaid and Aid and Attendance and expect to get the full A&A award amount. The maximum amount she could be awarded for A&A is $90.

Share This Page