Income Limit and deductions

Discussion in 'Veteran Application' started by RJH, Jul 19, 2016.

  1. RJH

    RJH Newbie

    Consider new application for 94 year old father in-law. What is the maximum allowable income for applicant with spouse? What are the allowable deductions?
    Thank you
     
  2. Kaylin

    Kaylin Hero Member Staff Member

    Any sort of care expenses can be considered deductions that go into considering "countable income". You can also use this sheet here (http://www.veteranaid.org/docs/income.pdf) to understand what would be counted as income. Roughly $80,000 or less in total assets is the limit level for a veteran with a spouse.
     
  3. RJH

    RJH Newbie

    Thank you. My Father-in-law is 94 and his spouse 91. Still live alone but in our neighborhood. They can generally care for themselves but can't leave the house since they can be prone to falls. We (my wife, their daughter, and I) get groceries, Med's, and take them to Dr's appointments, and run other errands as needed. We don't currently use any outside help or charge for anything we do. We are not sure what is reasonable or what documentation is needed if we did charge.
    If we charged or used outside help to provide the services mentioned, would that be deductible from income?
    If so what documentation is needed? Is a written agreement needed? Ant forms need completed with VA.
    Any help would be appreciated.
     
  4. Kaylin

    Kaylin Hero Member Staff Member

    Yes, if you wanted to act as the "caregivers" of your father-in-law and his spouse then you can show that as an expense on the 21-527EZ application form. It would count against the income, indeed. The best documentation is bank statements that show the expenses of costs. You can use a Caregivers agreement form, which I have an example below. Use the How to Apply page on VeteranAid to help walk you through the application process.

    CARE SERVICES AGREEMENT
    This CARE SERVICES AGREEMENT documents the prior verbal agreement and/or understanding made by and between the Client (the person requiring care services) and the Caregiver (the person providing care services) of said agreement. Services are to include the following itemized services and any others deemed necessary or desirable for the health and well being of the Client.
    · Monitoring health status to include physical and emotional condition. Coordination of doctors' appointments, transportation to appointments, consulting with doctors, keeping prescriptions up to date, picking up prescriptions, organizing and administering all medications.
    · Securing health care professionals, doctors, nurses, and home care providers as necessary.
    · Assistance with bathing, dressing, personal hygiene, grooming, and health care as needed.
    · Assessing personal needs and desires as to social, physical, entertainment, hobby, and personal pursuits as needed and or/requested by Client.
    · Assisting with instrumental daily activities to include care of pets and securing the home regarding "safety" measures as needed.
    · Financial management including weekly and monthly bill paying, daily money management, and taking care of other financial matters.
    · Dealing with other third parties to coordinate matters detailed herein.
    · Safeguarding client's rights with regard to benefits and other programs client is entitled to.
    · Manage and run home by providing all following services and any others necessary for a well-maintained home environment: planning, cooking, and serving all meals, cleaning, laundry, transportation, errands, shopping, lawn care, landscape maintenance, and minor home repairs.
    The weekly or monthly compensation paid to the Caregiver is subject to change at any time as agreed between the Client and the Caregiver. The initial arrangement is as follows.
    Hours/Days: Full time, seven days a week, 24 hours a day
    Compensation: $amount a month
    ____________________ ____________________
    Dated Client


    _______________________ __________________________
    Dated Caregiver
     
  5. RJH

    RJH Newbie

    You've been very helpful. Thank you very much!
     
    Kaylin likes this.
  6. Kaylin

    Kaylin Hero Member Staff Member

    You're welcome!
     
  7. RJH

    RJH Newbie

    Another question. We have all my FIL's military separation papers. None of the forms are DD214 but he was discharged in October of 1945. The closest document is entitled Report of Separation and the form is 53.55 dated 1 November 1944. Do you know if this form was the forerunner? It looks very similar to the DD214
    Thanks!
     
  8. Kaylin

    Kaylin Hero Member Staff Member

    You can use separation papers in place of Discharge papers (DD-214). Also prior to January 1, 1950, several similar forms were used by the military services, including the WD AGO 53, WD AGO 55, WD AGO 53-55, NAVPERS 553, NAVMC 78PD and the NAVCG 553. These can also work in place of DD-214
     
  9. RJH

    RJH Newbie

    Thank you for your help. I looked more closely at the document and it is in fact "WD AGO 53.55".
     
    Kaylin likes this.
  10. Kaylin

    Kaylin Hero Member Staff Member

    You're most welcome!
     
  11. RJH

    RJH Newbie

    Considering using the " Fully Developed Claim" process to apply for HBound Pension. Would I need to only include VA Form 21-527-EZ, income, net worth, etc? Would I also include private medical details such as a private physician statement, DD214, and all other supporting documents for the claim? (Marriage Cert?) Also have annual visit with VA Medical facility which they could access.
     
  12. Kaylin

    Kaylin Hero Member Staff Member

    A Physician's Statement is also required for the Housebound level. The VA will automatically consider this level if the claimant does not fully qualify for Aid and Attendance.

    The criteria for Housebound requires that the claimant needs regular assistance, but is not as limited as those who would qualify for Aid and Attendance.

    Care can be provided by family members or outside caregiver's agencies. Families need to be reimbursed for the care and services they are providing just as you would an outside agency.

    It is imperative that an accurate accounting of expenses is kept. Do not ever pay in cash as you must have a record of payments via check, money order, etc. The VA sends out an annual evaluation form known as an EVR to determine if the applicant still meets the standards of criteria. Without proof of expenses, the VA will stop payments on the pension.

    The same forms are used for filing for Aid and Attendance and Housebound
     
  13. RJH

    RJH Newbie

    Thank you. We haven't charged for the trips to VA, Dr, or getting groceries. :-(
    What if they pay to have house cleaned?
     
  14. Kaylin

    Kaylin Hero Member Staff Member

    Paying for the house to be cleaned is not counted as a care expense. That would not count as an expense in the VA's eyes for this benefit.
     
  15. RJH

    RJH Newbie

    Kaylin,
    Is there a specific form required for the physicians statement?
    My FIL had a doctors visit and he agreed to provide a statement with diagnosis etc.
    Regards,
    Bob H
     
    Kaylin likes this.
  16. Kaylin

    Kaylin Hero Member Staff Member

    Yessir, you would use this form right here: http://www.veteranaid.org/docs/PhysicianStatementForA&A.pdf

    Make sure it is the physician that signs off on the form, not a physician's assistant of any sort.
     
  17. RJH

    RJH Newbie

    Awesome. Thank you very much!
     
    Kaylin likes this.
  18. DMJ

    DMJ Newbie

    Kaylin,
    You stated in this forum that assets have to be around $80,000 or less. I've been doing a lot of ready and research for my father and have read the assets/income had changed to $119,220. Also, there is now a look-back period of 3 years. Can you confirm this? Thank you.
     
  19. Kaylin

    Kaylin Hero Member Staff Member

    As of right now, we are standing by the ~$80,000 asset level. It's our rule of thumb, although it may no apply to all situations. Once the 3 year look back is implemented, we will reevaluate the asset level if the VA releases new information.
     
  20. Dasl

    Dasl Newbie

    My MIL and FIL currently reside with their daughter. Due to her own health issues, they need to move to a Personal Care Facility. My FIL has Alzheimer's and he needs help with all ADL's and he wanders. He will be moving into the facility in one week. I have read your awesome forum and learned lots. thank you! But I do have a couple questions:
    1- Can a low income veteran (he was in Korean War) receive BOTH basic pension AND Aid and Attendance? The costs for both of them to be in a facility is about $8,000/month. Their combined monthly income from all sources including Social Security (after paying for Medicare B,C, and D) is $2023. I am in the process of collecting their recurring medical expenses such as hearing aids and eye glasses and incontinence pads. They probably have a little over $90,000 in savings and annuities.
    2- Is there currently a look back for these benefits?

    thank you so much!
     

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