Received Request For Details Of Expenses

Discussion in 'Tips and Resources' started by TripleW, Oct 24, 2014.

  1. TripleW

    TripleW Newbie

    After submitting the VBA-21-534-ARE Aid And Attendant Application a few months ago I received a notice indicating that they needed the following info:

    1.) Fill out form VBA-21-8049-ARE2, Request For Details Of Expenses.

    2.) Requested a death certificate for the deceased veteran, (although I sent a copy with the original application)

    3.) Wanted to know the market value of property except house, vehicle, clothing, & furniture.

    * - Other than filling out Form VBA-21-8049-ARE2, exactly how much detail do they need? Should I reply with copies of utilities, food receipts, housing expenses, and taxes?

    * - Also, does cable or a land line phone count as utilities or is that just electricity and water?

    * - As for the death certificate. Will a copy do, or does it need to be certified, or should I send an original?

    * - As for market value of property, do they need an itemized list? How does one estimate the value a few pieces of artwork in the midst of an economic depression? Based upon their wording "Market value is the price you would get if you sold the item on the same day you submit this information to us". Would that be a liquidation sale such as an estate sale, or what the price would be if you donated the item to a thrift store, or what I would like to get for the item if I placed an ad in the newspaper or online? From what I've seen online and in the newspaper, people are selling their possessions at rock bottom prices.

    I realize market value is subjective, so if you could answer the first three questions I would be appreciative.
  2. vetadmin

    vetadmin Administrator Staff Member

    I have not encountered the VA asking for market value. I have a resource that will get back with me on this question.

    1) Yes, fill this out
    2) Send a "certified" copy of the Death Certificate.

    **It is not uncommon for the VA to request things more than once claiming they did not receive it.

    You do not include utilities, food, taxes etc. Nor do you include phone, cable. None of these are "allowable" medical expenses.
  3. TripleW

    TripleW Newbie


    Thanks for the reply.

    Sadly, Form VBA-21-8049-ARE2, Request For Details Of Expenses, does want you to list monthly expenses such as food, housing, taxes, utilities, interest, utilities, education of children, and any other expenses. I would attach the form but it's to large.

    I sense they were not impressed with the amount of out of pocket expenses for a Home Health Aid and other medical expenses, although it exceeds her Social Security income, and want to know what other expenses she incurs each month.

    My only concern is their definition of "Market Value" or as they say, "the price you would get if you sold the item on the same day you submit this information to us."

    Of course there's multiple levels of market value:

    1.) The garage sale

    2.) Thrift store or charity value used by the IRS if items are donated. And having visited multiple thrift stores, prices vary considerably.

    3.) Estate auction

    4.) Online sales or newspaper sales.

    5.) Price someone would like to get if they were selling the item.

    One last question.

    I assume if they deny the pension for this year I can apply again next year?
  4. VA Legal Team

    VA Legal Team Full Member

    The reason you received a request for VA Form 21-8049 is because VA is questioning whether the surviving spouse has sufficient assets to pay for her own healthcare.

    In my experience, 9 times out of 10, that request is followed by a denial letter.

    With that in mind, you need to list all possible expenses that are provided on the form. The idea is to show the VA that your mom's net worth is not sufficient and that she needs federal benefits. You do not need copies. The VA is obligated to take you at your word unless evidence to the contrary exists. Importantly, you have 30 days to respond to this letter before the VA mails you a denial letter (you then have a year to appeal/ reconsider).

    When it comes to market value, the VA mainly want to know about real property that isn't the primary residence (i.e. farmland, renal properties, vacation homes, etc...). Secondly, they want to know about personal property like valuable artwork, expensive jewelry and antiques, etc....Based on your list of potential market valuations (garage sale, etc...), your mom doesn't own any real property.

    You aren't obligated to perform an inventory an every piece of personal property the surviving spouse owns. You do not need to report her clothes, dishes, couch, tv, etc...

    Hope that helps.
  5. TripleW

    TripleW Newbie

    As a follow up, I determined that I had sent in the wrong death certificate to the VA. At the time I received two copies of the death certificate, but forgot that one listed the cause of death while the other one did not.

    So, when sending in a copy of the death certificate make sure it lists the cause of death. Otherwise you'll receive a letter from the VA like I did.

    I would like to thank VetAdmin and this website for all the usefull information if provides.
  6. vetadmin

    vetadmin Administrator Staff Member

    Thanks for sharing that clarification, and glad to hear that it was a simple fix for you.

    Thank you for your kind words, and we're glad you found us.
  7. Kappy

    Kappy Newbie

    So IS there some sort of sheet that should be used to show monthly expenses?
    And, what would be the most efficient way to document money paid for care giving situations, like bathing, feeding from a family member to an veteran?
  8. TripleW

    TripleW Newbie

    When making the initial application for the Aid and Attendance Pension there is a section in VA form VBA-21-534-ARE where you list the applicants monthly medical expenses. VBA-21-534-ARE is the Aid and Attendance Pension form.

    The form, VBA-21-8049-ARE, Request For Details Of Expense, is another form asking for details of other monthly expenses not related to the applicant's monthly medical expenses. They requested details of other monthly expenses like housing, utilities, food, taxes paid, interest paid on loans, educational expenses of any dependents, or other expenses.

    The form can be found here:

    The most efficient way to document money paid for care giving situations, like bathing, feeding from a family member to a veteran would be in the initial application. Use form VBA-21-534-ARE. If you've already sent in the application you can supplement it by sending in the expenses listed under Section XII, Remarks, on a separate sheet with a letter of explanation along with the veteran's file number.

    From Section XII of from VBA-21-534-ARE:

    SECTION XII: Remarks (If you need more space to answer a question or have a comment about a specific item number on
    this form please identify your answer or statement by the part and item number)

    SECTION IX <------ (This refers back to Section 9 unreimbursed care and medical expenses)
    40a. Amount paid by you: 50.00
    40b. Date paid: 06/07/2014
    40c. Purpose: Bathing services by Home Health Aid
    40d. Paid to: In Home Health Services, Inc. <-------- (Fictional name)
    40e. Relationship of person for whom expenses paid: Surviving Spouse <---- (This is the applicant)


    I believe this is the correct way of proceeding.

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