Asset Question

[zqerky]

If the veteran has assets over the $80,000 threshold, is he able to convert those assets into a trust fund?  If so, is it necessary to do this through a financial advisor and an attorney?  He is applying for Aid and Attendance for his wife.

[AidandAttendance]

I would def. recommend it as they would know more about it.
I would say go to the attorney more as they more than likely know more about the program than the financial guy.
I have only ran into 3 or 4 financial guys that knew about it and they were MBAs, I do not know if there is a relationship there but I found that to be ironic and interesting.
Just go to any attorney, go to an elder law attorney or estate planning attorney, usually those type of attorneys practice both!

[Carlotta]

Question: I would think so but I am not sure-Is a 401K an asset?

[Fit2009]

Yes, a 401k is considered an asset.

[pologal1979]

ok, here is the deal. pension is a NEEDS BASED PROGRAM. i get so mad when i read stuff like this.

when a veteran has, lets say, $150,000 and he wants to apply for pension he will probably be denied due to assets. you know why? because it is a NEED BASED PROGRAM.

HIDING ASSETS IS CHEATING THE SYSTEM.

if VA sees that your net worth was in a trust fund, IRA or whatever, its still your net worth. its still countable  = denied claim.

if you decide to play the loophole game and hide your $200K under your kid's name and SSN then apply for pension as a "poor" veteran you are committing FRAUD.

 

[jpez]

if you decide to play the loophole game and hide your $200K under your kid's name and SSN then apply for pension as a "poor" veteran you are committing FRAUD.

What is your problem!
1. fraud is not reporting the information asked.
2. Do you 'hide' you money in an IRA so you don't have to pay taxes on your gross income?
3. No one in this post mentioned kids but you.
when you post a non-factual statement you should be big enough to state IMHO (in my humble opinion).
The gentleman who teaches the accredidation course to attoneys clearly show the code that allows gifting.

[Drew43920]

If the veteran has assets over the $80,000 threshold, is he able to convert those assets into a trust fund?  If so, is it necessary to do this through a financial adviser and an attorney?  He is applying for Aid and Attendance for his wife.

I am a disabled veteran. My disability is not service connected.  My assets are over $ 80,000.00
I am in Ohio. I put my assets into a Trust so that I could qualify for Medicaid. I used an Attorney.
These assets are NOT counted by Medicaid but they ARE counted by the VA when it comes to Aid and Assistance.

[jpez]

Drew,
Great post! This is EXACTLY what I have tried to teach for the last 10 yrs.
The bottom line is what you did was wrong.... not your fault....but still wrong. Nothing should impinge on the ability to get all possible benifits.
This type of planning has to be done in a BIGGER context. With an understanding of the effects that each program will have on the other. I can assure you, the trust that was sold to you COULD have & should have worked in both cases. And possibly it does work for VA but the VA has made an incorrect ruling.

SO many people come running for their Aid & Attendance benefit (which really dosen't exist) and get turned off because they have to apply for Compensation or Pension. Well, that's the program choice, A&A is just a rating. ANd why don't we talk about HOMEBOUND?
Why are we creating an environment where a family has to 'wait' until they are giving CARE?
Why can't we explain that there is money available YEARS sooner?

There are twice as many seniors who can't drive than those who are in need of hands on help.
THe same people turn their nose up at Medicaid when Medicaid is designed to help the low income.
The same is true for Medicare QMB SLM and Q1 and EXTREA HELP.

All of these can successfully be blended to maximize the benefits available.

Much like the "elder law" attorneys who only do 'nursing home planning/medicaid" the people who claim to be experts in A&A have no idea about the other programs that will blend in to help the senior get the most possible benefits the need.

[Drew43920]

Drew,
Great post! This is EXACTLY what I have tried to teach for the last 10 yrs.
The bottom line is what you did was wrong.... not your fault....but still wrong. Nothing should impinge on the ability to get all possible benifits.
This type of planning has to be done in a BIGGER context. With an understanding of the effects that each program will have on the other. I can assure you, the trust that was sold to you COULD have & should have worked in both cases. And possibly it does work for VA but the VA has made an incorrect ruling.
***********************************************************************
What did I do wrong and what could I have done better

Drew

[jpez]

Correct Max.
Net Worth of the veteran and spouse at the time of application. Period.
Not the value of all his friends and family members not living in his home. Not the value of his estate 3 months ago or even 1 day ago.

Here is an anology.
a single person owns a home in his own name worth $700,000. He dies. His estate will go to probate because he owned more than $100,000 at death. Pays out $20-30,000 in probate fees to the State he lives in.
Same person. Buys a living trust and has the house titled to the living trust. He dies. The house avoids probate and the State gets nothing.
1. Is his executor required to tell the state at his death what he owned before he had the living trust?  No.
2. Is the state allowed to 'report' him to the attorney general because he moved his assets into a living trust? No

The VA is clear in it's code that certain gifts that give up told control of the asset are allowed. period.
THe fact that your response on everything else (outside of your area of expertice) is so unequivical, then you should be able to state for a fact that gifting is illegal. But you can't because, by va code it isn't.
A gift given that gives up all control IS NOT part of Net Worth.

I have not heard anyone suggest not reporting actual net worth or actual income at the time of application. To do so is fraud. But for you to 'imply' that money gifted correctly is still net worth is........well that would probably be fraud also.  The law is the law and it runs both ways.

[Drew43920]

If the veteran has assets over the $80,000 threshold, is he able to convert those assets into a trust fund?  If so, is it necessary to do this through a financial adviser and an attorney?  He is applying for Aid and Attendance for his wife.

*****************************
I am sorry to come so late to this discussion.
If he AND his wife's total assets are over $80,000 does that mean that each of them have assets over $40,000 ??
For A&A are the assets divided equally between he and is wife ?

[Drew43920]

ok, here is the deal. pension is a NEEDS BASED PROGRAM. i get so mad when i read stuff like this.
when a veteran has, lets say, $150,000 and he wants to apply for pension he will probably be denied due to assets. you know why? because it is a NEED BASED PROGRAM.
HIDING ASSETS IS CHEATING THE SYSTEM.
if VA sees that your net worth was in a trust fund, IRA or whatever, its still your net worth. its still countable  = denied claim.
if you decide to play the loophole game and hide your $200K under your kid's name and SSN then apply for pension as a "poor" veteran you are committing FRAUD.

*****************************************
Anger is not good for you.

[vbcoder]

If the veteran has assets over the $80,000 threshold, is he able to convert those assets into a trust fund?  If so, is it necessary to do this through a financial adviser and an attorney?  He is applying for Aid and Attendance for his wife.

*****************************
I am sorry to come so late to this discussion.
If he AND his wife's total assets are over $80,000 does that mean that each of them have assets over $40,000 ??
For A&A are the assets divided equally between he and is wife ?

I think it's a moot point as far as the original poster is concerned. He was asking about applying for A&A for his wife.
If I understand A&A correctly, he can only qualify for A&A for himself and get the max benefit if he's married.

[Drew43920]

If the veteran has assets over the $80,000 threshold, is he able to convert those assets into a trust fund?  If so, is it necessary to do this through a financial adviser and an attorney?  He is applying for Aid and Attendance for his wife.

*****************************
I am sorry to come so late to this discussion.
If he AND his wife's total assets are over $80,000 does that mean that each of them have assets over $40,000 ??
For A&A are the assets divided equally between he and is wife ?

I think it's a moot point as far as the original poster is concerned. He was asking about applying for A&A for his wife.
If I understand A&A correctly, he can only qualify for A&A for himself and get the max benefit if he's married.

You may be right.
Can a Vet's wife only get a Pension and A&A if the Vet is dead ?
Are we assuming the wife is not a Vet ?

[VSR]

If you start a new thread for vet married to vet, i can provide some guidance.