net worth

[VSR]

I know that jpez is no longer posting here, but I think it is an important note to make that VA's general counsel opinion has defined household to include close family members including children and siblings, even if they do not live with the veteran.  I cannot stress it enough how much easier it is to report the net worth up front honestly.  The 80k number is not set in stone.  VA can pencil in anyone so long as there is a good financial reason to do so (i.e. will their net worth last for the rest of their lives? if no, even if it is really really really close, VA ALWAYS grants).

thanks!

§ 3.276   Certain transfers or waivers disregarded.
 (b) Transfer of assets. For pension purposes, a gift of property made by an individual to a relative residing in the same household shall not be recognized as reducing the corpus of the grantor's estate. A sale of property to such a relative shall not be recognized as reducing the corpus of the seller's estate if the purchase price, or other consideration for the sale, is so low as to be tantamount to a gift. A gift of property to someone other than a relative residing in the grantor's household will not be recognized as reducing the corpus of the grantor's estate unless it is clear that the grantor has relinquished all rights of ownership, including the right of control of the property.

nough said.

VA allows gifts.

So let's look at you comments in the light of the law. Gifts done by the law are allowed.

I respect you comments about the poor but you also miss the fact that this Non-service related DISABILITY Pension is really not intended to be used as a long-term care benefit for the elderly.
It was a mis-defining of being over 65 that opened the floodgates.  Over 65 is deemed 100% disabled.
No proof of disability, just a birthday. So if you are going moral on us then stop using the Pension period.
Look the VA is incompetant. you sluff off the shredding like ALL agencies do it???
I guarentee that Medi-Cal has never shredded an app.
App are logged, worker's are asigned, reciepts are given.
And actually I know far more about how the program works than you seem to thing.
THe fact that YOU posted the proof of allowable gifting and don't seem to realize it speaks volumes.

[blinky]

Max,

With all due respect...

Please cite the relevent OGC opinion to back up your statement.

Thanks

[VSR]

From what I understand, PREC 33-97.  If funds are held for the veteran's benefit, even if he has no technical, legal access to said funds, they are still countable net worth for VA purposes.  In fact, this citation specifically discusses how many people are using public programs like VA pension and Medicaid to protect assets for an inheritance, even though it constituted unjust enrichment at taxpayer expense.

I'm not a lawyer or anything like that, I just know that these two references are what are used at VA to make appropriate denials when net worth is an issue. As I hope we all know, this benefit is for people who really need the funds to live out their golden years with a degree of dignity or to stay off the street. It is not meant to protect assets so that their heirs can receive a larger inheritance.

If there is any indication that a claimant's net worth will not last for the rest of their lives, VA always grants. Please be honest and protect the dignity and integrity of the programs that were created to protect our country's most vulnerable heroes.

[Dex]

Just stumbled across this site while researching eligibility for the VA Aid & Attendance. I heard a presentation at an assisted living community a couple of weeks ago about the tax free monthly income available to veterans. The presenter went through the eligibility requirements and said not to worry about the net worth requirement. He said with proper estate planning involving a process called stacked gifting the net worth requirement would not be a problem for either the VA Aid & Attendance or Medicaid. At a subsequent meeting in his office he revealed his charges for the service - $30,000 plus he wanted 3% per year for managing the assets. This guy must have had Bernie Madoff as a mentor. Why isn't there protection for seniors from such a blatant scam?

I followed a link I found on this website to an attorney in my area that specializes in Veterans Benefits. I spoke to the attorney this afternoon about the A&A benefit and the legality of transferring assets to qualify. Not only did she say the strategies utilizing irrevocable trusts were legal for A&A but also for Medicaid. She equated the strategies to the strategies used by people who set up trusts to avoid estate and probate fees or by people who utilize strategies to reduce their income tax. Her fee - $4000.

After reading the discussion here it appears most believe the strategies used to reduce net worth may not be illegal. Many that appear against any strategies are influenced by moral issues.

Does anyone here know anyone or heard of anyone actually being denied benefits because they used strategies to reduce net worth?

[Fit2009]

I have not.  I know of someone who was qualified last week who originally submitted with $183,000 in assets and was approved as of the orginal filing date.  I also know that in June the instructions for the 21-526 were changed to require the veteran to disclose any gifting or transfers that have been done...the fall out from that, if any remains to be seen

[Arizona living]

Ok, generally I don't get into the middle of folks expressing their opinion as this is afterall a public forum, but I think that between Pologal and Jpez this is enough on this topic.  There is an obvious difference of opinion, but this back and forth is not serviving any real purpose that proves helpful to forum members who are looking for answers.  
If the two of you want to continue the debate, please do so through private emails to one another.

VetAdmin, I am here because I am in the same circumstance as many deciding what to do.  I went to an ALF and they also said not to worry, that creating a trust was simple and legit.  VETAM, do not shut the thread off, this is not to be discussed in a Private way.  I want to hear both sides of the story.  The rules do change and it seems the VA is getting more funds to help the vets.  I do want to hers your POV, So as an Veteran Admin, what is your point of view on transferring assets to qualify?

[Fit2009]

IMO - not that I am VETADMIN, the VA does allow transfers of assets, along as the vet has given control and their is no supplemental needs language or life estate.  In June 2010 the VA added instructions to the 21-526 to require disclosure of all gifts and transfers no matter when in the life of the veteran they occurred.  To date it does not appear to be accompanied by a change inthe underlying regulations.

I think the issue is, some people believe that  you should not move assets to get onto a government needs based program, which this is. 

Well, if there is a government program I can fit into, I am going to. 

People feel adamently both ways, the fact is the VA has not implemented a look back period but most restructuring either does not work for both Medicaid and the VA or leaves the senior at risk of not being able to access the funds should his care costs increase - this is the issue people have when all their funds are placed in an annuity.

[vetadmin]

I don't believe that I would take the word of the ALF as their agenda is to get the resident, and they do not have the appropriate background in filing or qualifying for this pension.    You need to speak with an Elder Law Attorney who can best advise you the proper course for your circumstances.

You may also want to contact ElderBenefitsConsulting.com to explore some other options that may be available.

I am not a an attorney nor am I a financial planner, so I will refrain from my point of view on the topic, but Fit makes the point well as to why there are strong arguments to both sides of this topic. 

[Arizona living]

Fit2009 and VetAdmin, Thank you for your replies.

I know in time I will need assistance, and I do not know what my future needs will be.  So until then, I will use what I have to provide for myself.  It is a nice comfort to know that you (VA) will be there when and "IF" my needs arise.  Thank you.

Being alone and then then visiting some ALF, these I could not ever afford on my own, it seems that being in company of other Vets and with VA assistance, my quality of life, whatever is left would be better. 

Good Forum.

[vetadmin]

Thank you and we wish you the best.